Bartek: Hi, this is Bartek Śliwa. Welcome back from the Technology Leaders of Tomorrow conference. Joining me today is Paweł Rybak. Hi.

Paweł: Hi. Hi. Welcome.

Bartek: Paweł, you are currently the CEO of Fly on the Cloud.

Paweł: That’s right.

Bartek: But your background is long and interesting, and I’d like you to start by walking us through your journey. We have the publicly traded Shoper. We have Fly on the Cloud, and a merger along the way. Tell us a few words about your journey.

Paweł: Well, I actually come from digital advertising, which is how I started my professional career. I built a company focused on search engine marketing and search engine optimization. It grew quite significantly to a few hundred people. I sold that company to a large German conglomerate, and later I grew it organically and through acquisitions. So by the time I left, there were nearly 800 people working with me and hundreds of millions in revenue. So, a large business. Later on, while running that business, I met my current partner and later colleague, Marcin Kuźmierz, who is currently the CEO of Allegro. We were friends and were looking for a way to do something together. Marcin, who was a shareholder in Shoper and previously the CEO of home.pl, decided that it was time to change investors—we had German investors at the time—and team up. So he convinced me to join Shoper. Marcin became CEO, and shortly after, I became a board member responsible for commercial affairs—oversight of marketing, sales, upselling, and internet advertising products. Since that was the area I had been developing in for over a decade. Along the way, there was an IPO, and later a sale to a strategic investor. So there were plenty of adventures with digital products—Google products like Google Ads and Google Analytics, and then e-commerce, which always thrilled me because I had also been an investor in online stores along the way, so I knew it inside out. What next? Well, there was the pandemic, then the post-pandemic period, so the business needed a bit of a pivot. When customers were knocking on our door because everyone needed an online store, we turned it into a mature, fully developed business. I think it went really well—a great IPO, lots of excitement, great valuation, and a fantastic team. But with a new investor came new rules, so we decided to give the new investor free rein to grow it. After selling the majority stake in Shoper to Cyberfolks, Marcin, myself, and two other board members stepped down, and everyone went their separate ways. Though Marcin and I still share a business connection because he is an investor in Fly on the Cloud, where I am now. Earlier, he had invited me to join its supervisory board, so I knew the company. After exiting Shoper, I invested heavily in the company, bought a stake, became CEO, and now I’m responsible for its growth in Poland and abroad—we have entities and offices in Hungary and Romania. My goal is to grow it organically, and likely inorganically by acquiring complementary businesses along the way.

Bartek: Awesome. I loved the theme of friendship—not just business—and that foundation of trust, which I assume is priceless, especially these days.

Paweł: Absolutely. Marcin and I have known each other for over a decade. We started out strictly in business—I provided services to his company and its clients—but after meeting several times, we realized we shared a similar flow regarding business approach, growth strategy, and work culture. Suddenly, we were actively looking for opportunities to work together. That led to shared businesses and plenty of joint trips around the world. Since Shoper was a public company, it required a lot of investor roadshows and trips hosted by various partners. We traveled everywhere from China to the US. Just a month ago, we were at a major Google conference in Las Vegas, and we creatively decided to extend the trip since we were already that far out, so we flew to Hawaii for a week. So…

Bartek: Sounds like a dream.

Paweł: Today, we’ll be discussing digital transformation and your approach to it. But before we dive into that, I’d like to touch on the merger you also have under your belt.

Bartek: You’re one year post-merger, right? I’m curious because during company consolidations and mergers, the human element can often be a major bottleneck. After all, you’re merging two worlds, two operational approaches, and two distinct organizational cultures. How did you approach it? Can you share where the challenges were and how you handled them?

Paweł: Right. I had bought companies and joined businesses before, so this wasn’t my first merger. For these two companies, however, it was their first, so emotions ran high. I’m referring to Fly on the Cloud acquiring a smaller, multi-dozen-person data & AI company called Laurence Costel, whereas Fly on the Cloud already had well over 100 employees. First, we looked for synergies. That part was obvious: my primary company handles workplace transformation, cloud sales, consulting, cloud-to-cloud migrations, and cost optimization. The acquired company focused on data. Since people store massive amounts of data in the cloud, combining cloud infrastructure with data capabilities was a natural fit. So first came the synergies and the business vision—utilizing the client base and cross-leveraging experts to build a comprehensive offering. That was the primary goal. From a formal perspective and in terms of strategic goals, it went fairly well. However, combining different company cultures brought human challenges. The company we acquired was run with a small, startup-like mindset where everyone had their own style and approach to work. The CEO was a bit of an eccentric visionary, whereas I’ve been scaling businesses for 25 years with established procedures and frameworks. Beyond aligning our visions, those differences impacted the team. Navigating those challenges was necessary to deliver value to shareholders, employees, and above all, clients. Transformations always involve emotions. Here they were manageable, but realistically, not everyone made it through. We parted ways with some people, while others were promoted through the integration. Ultimately, we ended up with a highly comprehensive offering. Financially, I approach the businesses I run with a strong commercial mindset—if we invest or sell, we need to generate a return. We created an offering that combines both portfolios and unlocks additional upside across both client bases. We managed to retain most clients on both sides and successfully cross-sold services, so we’re very pleased.

Bartek: Would you have done anything differently?

Paweł: Maybe dial back the emotions a bit. Given the significant financial investments involved, having fewer emotional reactions on all sides would have helped. I would try to manage that better. On the other hand, I probably should have drawn up a stricter timeline for the merger and set clearer milestones. I should have enforced it more tightly—agreeing with teams on a firm timeline. I realize you can’t please everyone. We just had an interview with former President Aleksander Kwaśniewski, who mentioned he wanted to be the president for all Poles, but admitted he wasn’t. He won with 52% of the vote, while the rest didn’t support him. So my goal as a leader is to align with the majority of people who want to grow with us, believe in our vision, and help us reshape the business landscape. In that sense, things are going well.

Bartek: Okay, let’s move on to those exciting projects.

Paweł: You execute digital transformations for companies. As a major Google partner, you leverage tools like Google Workspace—including Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. Many users view these tools strictly through the lens of necessity: installing them for security, or compliance with regulations like NIS 2, GDPR, or the AI Act. Clients purchase them partly due to regulatory pressure. But beyond Google’s vast tech stack, people often complain, “Why pay so much per license when Gmail is essentially free?” Our role is not just to set up a secure environment, but to guide the client so that these tools elevate their business to a higher digital maturity level. We automate what we can and eliminate inefficiencies. If legacy on-premise servers are slow, we migrate them to the cloud. Once data is structured in cloud databases, we build data warehouses or Customer Data Platforms. So starting from basic workplace organization, we train teams on how to leverage and scale these tools. We also run “Train the Trainer” programs so large enterprises can retain in-house experts. This narrows down a vast tech stack into actionable Google solutions that make daily work comfortable and effective. We track adoption metrics and advise clients on next steps. Once basic automations or custom agents are assisting employees, we evaluate what works, address what doesn’t, and walk managers step-by-step through scaling. Today, companies that fail to automate or adopt AI risk falling behind. We don’t force adoption—many push AI too fast without considering security or business logic. Our job is to pace the process—speeding up when ready or slowing down to ensure stability. Once users embrace core tools like Google Gemini, NotebookLM, or custom-built solutions, we move to the next phase. That includes individual productivity tools for email drafting, contract analysis, or marketing asset creation, followed by advanced data warehousing where automated systems assist employees across client, vendor, and internal workflows. The most advanced stage involves end-to-end operational platforms or fully automated first-line customer support. While Google is our primary partner in Poland and Central Europe, we also collaborate with voice technology providers like ElevenLabs. Before deploying solutions for large enterprise clients, we build rapid data warehouses. This allows automated phone systems to verify caller identity instantly and resolve complex customer requests using high-quality, customized voice interactions. What starts as basic workplace digitalization often expands into massive enterprise projects that either automate processes previously requiring hundreds of people or augment individual roles with modern capabilities. That’s the overview in a nutshell.

Bartek: Transformation means change. In your experience, where do you see the most resistance? Is it at the C-suite level, driven by an eagerness for AI—wanting agents and automation everywhere? Or do you see more pushback from rank-and-file employees? I liked your point about internal training and upskilling, but fear and friction often persist. What’s your perspective?

Paweł: The C-suite generally understands that failing to experiment with digital transformation carries a massive risk of losing competitive edge. AI adoption is maturing, models are improving, and proof-of-concept projects are turning into production deployments. Executives are bought in. However, there is often a lack of transformational leadership skills needed to introduce AI constructively rather than using it to intimidate workers. When employees explore workplace automation, they need support rather than pressure. To answer your question directly: resistance increases the lower you go down the organizational chart. Employees often receive top-down mandates to be more productive because management reads headlines claiming AI boosts efficiency by 30%. Hardworking employees who aren’t tech-savvy naturally feel threatened. That fear is widespread. Our focus is to eliminate that fear. When employees embrace these tools, we recognize and reward them. During transformations, we advise clients on creating AI Champions or Evangelist programs through HR channels. We frame AI proficiency as a career accelerator and promotion driver. When lower tiers see AI as a personal development opportunity rather than a corporate mandate, enthusiasm replaces anxiety. In today’s market, lacking basic or intermediate tech skills severely limits career prospects. Individuals without modern skill sets struggle significantly in the job market. We emphasize growth, learning opportunities, and the personal benefits of these tools—from planning vacations and budgeting to generating event invitations. During one training session, an attendee mentioned using AI prompts to resolve an argument with his spouse. After applying Gemini’s advice, things smoothed out the next day. So the applications are broad.

Bartek: I’m smiling because I wanted to find something to debate you on, but I agree with everything you’re saying. In managing my own department, I took the same approach: be upfront with people. Either embrace AI now, or you’ll struggle to stay competitive in a year or two. My goal is for the team to grow stronger together.

Paweł: Exactly.

Bartek: So I completely agree with your approach.

Paweł: Thanks. We adapt our messaging based on the client. You’re a tech-forward organization, but we also work with manufacturing and retail companies. In those environments, workers step away from production lines or retail floors briefly to look up information or assist customers—like recommending a TV model in an electronics store. We demystify the technology and show how small integrations can streamline repetitive tasks, boost performance bonuses, or eliminate tedious processes. It’s about practical AI.

Bartek: Practical AI. Exactly.

Bartek: Where do companies most frequently fail during digital transformations? What are the common pitfalls?

Paweł: Trying to do too much, too fast. Once a company decides to transform, individual departments often start implementing their own tools independently. Within a year, they end up with fragmented tech stacks and unaddressed security risks. This happens when executive leadership sets initiatives in motion but fails to maintain active governance. Leaders need to align department heads regularly to consolidate tools, optimize licensing costs, and maintain a unified operational framework. Otherwise, internal factions form—some favoring Claude, others Copilot or Google Gemini. Chaotic rollouts make cleanup difficult. Once time and capital are sunk into disparate tools, political friction emerges over whose AI setup is superior. We see this across organizations ranging from dozens of employees to tens of thousands. Rush and chaos replace strategic direction. Management often fails to define concise goals—such as targeting a 10% performance gain through AI, allocating a specific budget, or identifying clear efficiency targets. Without a clear strategy, AI implementation turns into an unstructured push to outshine competitors, resulting in random deployments that can actually decrease overall productivity. Digital transformation must be embedded directly into corporate strategy. Rather than spending months with consultants, companies should target specific quick wins: workplace automation, cloud migrations, and security upgrades. These technical milestones should tie directly into business outcomes. It’s also critical to validate targets with advisors. If a client wants to reduce a 400-person call center to 50 people using AI, it might be technically possible, but customer satisfaction and sales will likely plummet. A better strategy is maintaining the 400-person team, automating routine pre-service workflows to drive 30% growth, and freeing sales reps from manual CRM data entry. Companies need a calm, strategic perspective on what they actually want to achieve with AI, rather than acting out of FOMO.

Bartek: I agree that a two-way alignment is necessary—top-down strategic direction paired with bottom-up execution. Earlier you mentioned AI Ambassadors or Evangelists.

Paweł: Evangelists.

Bartek: Exactly. Operational team members who are enthusiastic about technology and eager to share knowledge across teams and departments to inspire their peers.

Paweł: Exactly. Establishing ambassador roles across departments is highly effective. Supporting these champions with specialized training and public recognition drives strong engagement. However, a common mistake in ambassador programs is failing to set boundaries for how others should leverage them. Champions often optimize their own workflows and become productivity leaders, but without clear guidelines, they get burdened with ambassador duties on top of their full-time jobs. They inadvertently become informal AI helpdesks. Tech-minded employees end up answering basic, repetitive troubleshooting questions, which leads to burnout. We’ve seen ambassadors step down after six months because their role devolved into basic prompting support. HR and management must clearly define the ambassador’s role as a source of inspiration rather than technical support.

Bartek: That’s an important insight. It’s a new role that many organizations haven’t implemented yet, and it’s easy to mismanage.

Paweł: Definitely. It’s similar to promoting a top salesperson into management without assessing their leadership skills. An enthusiastic employee who automated their own workload can share insights, but giving them extra responsibilities without support turns them into an unofficial helpdesk. Handled assertively, however, it’s a powerful tool for driving organizational growth.

Bartek: To wrap up, I’d like to ask our signature closing question. What has inspired you recently? It could be a conversation, a meeting, your trip to Hawaii, or a book.

Paweł: I’ll start with books. I consume books in bulk during my free time. I hope AI never replaces human authors. AI-generated books are increasingly common, but the difference is still noticeable. Lately, I’ve been drawing inspiration from classic Polish science fiction—authors like Stanisław Lem and Jacek Dukaj.

Bartek: Great choices.

Paweł: Works like Dukaj’s Perfect Imperfection or Ice offer fascinating perspectives on technological evolution and the future. AI is a valuable tool that can streamline work and drive business growth, hopefully doing more good than harm. But I draw true inspiration for big ideas from literature written by human authors.

Bartek: Excellent. Whenever someone asks me what a fully automated world will look like, I recommend reading Stanisław Lem’s Return from the Stars.

Paweł: Yes.

Bartek: It gives a great look into the challenges we’ll face.

Paweł: Absolutely.

Bartek: Awesome. Paweł, thank you very much for the conversation. It was a pleasure. Thank you all for watching and listening, and we’ll see you in the next podcast episode.